Punch Them In The Mouth With Their Polling Argument

The Republicans made up some of the most vicious and vile lies about health care reform over the course of the last year and because the media was unwilling to call them out for these lies, several of them actually took hold with a segment of the population. Even when they were disproven over and over again, shameless Republicans continued to repeat them over and over again and the resulting confusion worked out in their favor...for awhile. The polling numbers for President Obama and the health care reform plans definitely went underwater for a time, even if the poll numbers for the underlying policies remained relatively strong. But Republicans made what could quite possibly be a cataclysmic error when they started using the polling as an argument to vote against health care reform. It was without a doubt an act of desperation as they saw the writing on the wall that health care reform would pass, but even in desperation you would think SOMEBODY would have pointed out how this might come back to bite them in the ass.

Thank God, nobody evidently did.

There was always both a potential short term and a potential long term problem for Republicans with using the polling argument. The short term problem of course would have been if all of the polling turned around before the health care votes were taken. It would be really hard to on the one hand say that Democrats are going to vote against the wishes of the American people when polling is bad, then turn around and vote against the polling numbers when they turn around for health care reform. The hypocrisy would have been so over the top that I think had that happened a few Republicans would have pealed off and voted for the bill in shame. But even though polling did turn around in several polls on health care reform, by and large it was still a mixed bag so the Republicans effectively got away with it in the short term.

But the long term problem was always going to be the harder one to over come anyway. See its easy to fearmonger against something when its still just a concept, but its a lot harder to fearmonger effectively against it when it becomes a reality. The only way the Republicans strategy would work would be if they could somehow keep the polling numbers for health care reform mixed. This as seniors are getting rebates of $250 to help them with their prescription drugs. This as people's kids aren't being discriminated against for preexisting conditions. This as parents are allowed to keep their kids on their insurance until age 26.

Not exactly the easiset task.

But not only would they have to hope that people would continue to be either confused about or against health care reform, they would actually need for people to be SOOOOO against it that they would support a full repeal of it. Let me repeat that, a FULL repeal of health care reform, something that Presidents, Democrat and Republican alike, have been trying to get passed for over half a century.

So now, on the day that health care reform is signed into law, here comes the first of many devastating blows to come in my opinion for the Republican Party.

WASHINGTON — Americans by 9 percentage points have a favorable view of the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against it.
By 49%-40% those surveyed say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms, as "enthusiastic" or "pleased," while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

The largest single group, 48%, calls the bill "a good first step" that should be followed by more action on health care. An additional 4% also have a favorable view, saying the bill makes the most important changes needed in the nation's health care system.

Understand this, these numbers are coming out before even a single provision of the health care bill has actually taken effect. Nobody has even begun to feel the positive aspects of it and yet the numbers are 49% for and 40% against. If you don't think those numbers will improve after the bill actually starts taking effect in people's day to day lives you're delusional....or maybe just a hardcore Republican.

But wait it gets worse as Greg Sargent tracked down the internals.

* Independents say passage was a good thing, though by a statistically insignificant margin: 46-45.

* The emotional response of respondendents was more positive than negative, with 50% saying they’re enthusiastic or pleased while 42% are angry or disappointed. But: Indys break down along these lines 45-47.

* Republicans are very unhappy about what happened: A whopping 79% are angry or disappointed.

* Gallup concludes that passage was a “clear political victory,” but adds that much will turn on which way independents swing in coming weeks.

So even independents, who were pretty down on the bill in most polls, are now at least even in those for and those against. And many of them are evidently not just ok with the bill but enthusiastic or pleased. You KNOW the Republicans are going to rush out some Rasmussen poll to combat these numbers publicly but privately they have to be wetting their pants.


Either way the attack ads will damn near write themselves.

Imagine about 20 seconds of clips of Republicans referring to polling over the last few months and how Democrats were voting against their constituents.

Then a still shot of this poll.

Then a voice over guy saying “Well surely Republicans will support reform now, right?”

Then show images of tea baggers and Republicans cow towing to them. Steele calling reform armageddon. Several Repugs talking about repeal. Attorney Generals calling it unconstitutional. Basically a bunch of angry rhetoric.

Then cut to a kid who now has coverage even though they have a preexisting condition, cut to an elderly person at the pharmacy picking up their meds, cut to a small business owner handing out insurance card to their employees.

“For Republicans is it really about you? Or is it really about them?” fade to black with audio of wingnuts screaming "Kill the bill" in the background.

That's my 2 minute thought process ad. Imagine what I could do with this wealth of material if I actually sat down and thought about it.

I'll say this much, I hope Florida US Senate candidate Kendrick Meek's people ask both Marco Rubio and Charlie Crist early and often if they support repeal and or the efforts by the Florida AG to call health care reform unconstitutional. I don't know if Crist will make it out off the primary but if he does we all know he will flip flop with the polling numbers. But if Rubio makes it out he is such an idiot that he will not only continue to call for repeal but scare most Floridians in the process.

Either way, we win. So whose coming with me?

Enjoy Your Obscurity

It seems that Glenn Greenwald has decided to follow Jane Hamsher and her FireBaggers over the cliff. I can't wait until they have purified their version of the left to the point where its just Jane and Glenzilla left and they have a no holds barred cage match to decide who is the only "real" progressive.

Have fun with that.

Blog Roll just got one lighter.

More Evidence That What Democrats Need To Do Politically Is Just Stay Out Of The Way

When it comes to going after incumbent Republicans or races where the seat is up for grabs, please please please Democratic establishment, just let them eat their own and then sweep in to take the seat. The only way we can fuck up the election next year is if we make ourselves targets of both the establishment GOP and the wingnut/teabagger factions. Otherwise they will beat themselves into oblivion and whomever emerges will be so far to the right as to scare average people. We dont need do anything other than watch, maybe giggle a little, and let nature take its course...

TAMPA - An increasingly fractious challenge to the Republican Party from its own conservative base could relegate the party to indefinite minority status, some Republicans fear.

It's showing up in the form of conservative primary challengers against candidates blessed by the party establishment - a strange phenomenon in a party known for tightly controlled, wait-your-turn politics.

Some Republicans fear the divisive primaries could leave GOP voters divided and dispirited, or push to the party so far right it alienates mainstream voters.

"If you tried to devise a strategy for destroying the Republican Party in Florida, you couldn't do much better than this," said retired University of South Florida political scientist Darryl Paulson, a Republican and a former Heritage Foundation fellow.

"The kind of narrow appeal they're offering would almost guarantee Republicans would become the minority party in Florida," Paulson said.

Charles Johnson Throws Up The Deuces

Charles Johnson, once one of the most influential right wing bloggers, has officially disassociated himself with the right today after moving away from them for the better part of this year. In my opinion this is a striking development as I personally could never see in a million years Johnson embracing any liberal or progressive policies. This guy is a conservative all the way make no mistake about it, but the right has gone too far for even him. I think his final two lines really sum up the state of the right wingers in this country.

The American right wing has gone off the rails, into the bushes, and off the cliff.

I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

That to me is just another indication that you can throw all these generic ballots and polls out the window next year. When faced with the far right candidates likely to come out of many of the Congressional GOP primaries, I just really don't see most Americans going for that.

If they have lost Charles Johnson....

Just Stay The Hell Out Of The Way

By now hopefully most of you have heard that some members of the RNC and the Republican wingnut base want to conduct purity tests on candidates and current members of Congress so they can decide to deny funding to the campaigns of Republicans who do not pass said test. I think this is the greatest idea since sliced bread honestly and just about the only thing that will make this backfire on to Democrats is if we get in the way of what is sure to be a cannibalistic blood bath in the Republican Party next year.

What we need to do right now while they are having intraparty fights is concentrate on getting legislation passed. Oh sure we can do like we did back in grade school and when one GOP candidate challenge's another's conservative cred we can pump it up and make a big deal out of it in an effort to get the other guy to escalate the beef even further. But to me that should be the extent of it. These imbeciles are going to kill their electoral chances all on their own, they don't need any help at all.

Don't worry about generic ballots and polls right now, the mid term elections are still a year away. What Democratic strategists should be doing is tracking just how many contradictions all of the Republicans and I mean ALL of the Republicans are making in order to move to the right and win their primaries. As I said before the wingnut base doesn't give a shit about consistency. All they care about is conformity. So calling out their contradictions now don't really harm them at all, and it allows them to kind of catch themselves and not make too big a fool of themselves. Hell you already see Crist starting to flip flop BACK to his original position of supporting the stimulus. Thats not really what we want to have happen. We want him to stay on the wrong side of history and then bust his ass when the general comes around.

If we just keep documenting all the flip flopping it is going to be startling to general election voters in the middle how many hoops Republican candidates are willing to jump through in order to appease their base. Especially on issues having to do with global warming, something most people who aren't Republicans accept as reality. We want whomever to come out alive from a Republican primary to look like a wingnut right wing boogey man to the average person. And I can promise you that if we just stay out of the way and let them have at it, thats exactly what will happen.

Not only does this mean we won't lose as many seats as folks think we will right now, it also means we will pick up some seats that people aren't counting on. Arlen Specter had it right earlier this year when he switched parties (although I know a lot of people still aren't happy about that). He said that these wingnut groups putting wingnut candidates up to challenge Republicans who are already pretty far to the right by most folks standards don't really give a shit about winning and losing elections. For them its about taking the Republican Party as far to the right as they can go even if that means nobody trusts them to ever run the country.

So please folks, for the love of all that is good and cuddly, lets just sit on the sidelines for most of these fights. A little goading is ok once in awhile but lets not make ourselves a target that they can end up unifying behind. And lets not do such a great job of pointing out their hypocrisy NOW that they end up changing course and pulling back from the cliff.

Hell if they wanna jump, lets let em jump!

OOOOOOOOO This Is Gonna Get Good!

You want further proof that the Tea Baggers are gonna be the end of the GOP?

I was trolling memeorandum this morning having my cup of coffee when I came by this headline:

Dick Armey: Sarah Palin More 'Cheerleader' Than Captain...

Immediately I thought about how this could be the beginning of an all out, no holds barred, flame war between the Dick Armey astroturfed tea bagging crowd and the pro Sarah Palin, truth and knowledge don't matter, denizens. Alas when I clicked on the article Armey didn't really go after her like I thought he would although he did take some digs out of her for basically standing on the sidelines and also not doing the work necessary to become a viable candidate.

But then my dissappointment quickly evaporated as I remembered that wingnuts don't need any actual insults or slights to throw a hissy fit. So I go back over to memeorandum and sure enough there is a link to a post by "Conservatives 4 Palin".

Oh, its on BEYATCH! LOL

Armey really steps in it when he claims Governor Palin is just a "cheerleader". I don't know if he's being misogynistic or merely obtuse, but either way this is beneath the Dick Armey I thought I knew. I'd like to think he's simply having difficulty grasping the possibilities that technology allows in the hands of the right person. Governor Palin has always been a pioneer, both in spirit and in practice. This is who she is and how she has conducted her previous campaigns. She has never done things the conventional way. Perhaps Mr. Armey is unable to grasp the fact that yes, she can and is leading the modern conservative movement in a new and, perhaps, unconventional way. He is living in the past and needs to realize that there are new and better ways of doing things. As someone who has long supported Mr. Armey and his brand of libertarian conservatism for years, I hope this is the reason for his ill-conceived comments today.

snip

Today in a piece for Commentary Magazine, John Podhoretz writes that whatever Governor Palin's is doing to remain an influential player in American polictics is working just fine:

...Sarah Palin is dominating the news once again in advance of the release of her book. Which is to say, front-page stories, the lead stories on the morning shows, all using tiny tidbits of information about the book and a few clips from Monday’s Oprah. Whatever Sarah Palin is, she is also, as all this makes clear, a huge star. With the very prominent exception of Barack Obama, she’s the sensation in American politics this decade. And a person who can make news just by opening her mouth is a person to be reckoned with, a person who is not going away, a person who is going to play a role in American politics for a long time.

It is clear, to say the least, that Mr. Podhoretz has a much better grasp on Governor Palin's influence than Mr. Armey. Dick Armey can either get on board and help, or step aside.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

What makes this particular flame war perfect is that its between to people who are out of elected office and not likely to run again at least for the next 3 years or so. That means neither will have any motivation to hold back or apologize because there are no voters for them to cow tow to. This has all the earmarks of escalating, especially with Palin's history of not just letting things go. And it really doesn't matter who wins, as long as it keeps heating up because no matter what as long as it keeps going its gonna keep fracturing the GOP base.

Now all progressives and liberals, we need to for the most part just get the hell out of the way and let this happen. If we jump in and start antagonising for either side it may well backfire and derail this whole implosion by giving them a common target to unify against. Trust me on this one, they don't need any help at all to make this train wreck happen.

Instead I propose that we all hold back on criticizing Sarah Palin or at least criticizing her as much as we were. As everybody knows I have a moratorium on posting on any Sarah Palin stories (and technically I am still in compliance because this isn't about her per se, this is about the sychophants who follow her and the paid sychophants that follow Armey) and so far the world hasn't come to an end. At this point she has so destroyed her own credibility that you have the AP and even FoxNews jumping out to fact check her before some of our own blogs have a chance to do so.

So instead just sit back, grab some popcorn, and enjoy the fireworks that are sure to come!

The Abyss Comes To Florida

This is going to make things a LOT more interesting down here in Florida.

With Republicans grappling with the fallout of an intra-party battle that may have cost them a House seat, the head of the Senate Republican campaign effort is making a pledge that may ease some of the anger being directed at the party establishment. "

We will not spend money in a contested primary," Sen. John Cornyn, the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, told ABC News in a telephone interview today."

There's no incentive for us to weigh in," said Cornyn, R-Texas. "We have to look at our resources. . . . We're not going to throw money into a [primary] race leading up to the election."

Cornyn said his pledge extends to races for open Senate seats -- not incumbents who may face primaries next year. The NRSC so far has endorsed candidates in four open Senate seats -- Florida, Missouri, Illinois, and Pennsylvania.

Cornyn's commitment is most immediately relevant in Florida, where the NRSC's candidate, Gov. Charlie Crist, is facing an aggressive challenge on his right from state House Speaker Marco Rubio.

Some of the same conservative groups that supported Doug Hoffman in New York's 23rd congressional district are making noises about backing Rubio, in a contest that could be the next showdown over the direction of the party. "We're seriously looking at it. We like Marco Rubio a lot. We think that Charlie Crist represents some of the same things that Dede Scozzafava represents," Club for Growth President Chris Chocola said on ABCNews.com's "Top Line" Monday. Scozzafava was the Republican nominee in the New York race.

Now understand that I believe that Kendrick Meek, the very likely Democratic candidate for the Senate here in Florida is more than equipped to dispatch Charlie Crist in a general election next year. But if the wingnuts come calling down here and push Marco Rubio past Crist in a primary it would be like a gift handed to us. The lesson they should have learned last night is that even in a reliably Republican district, if you push a Rush Limbaugh/Sarah Palin/Americans For Prosperity candidate you will lose. Instead these folks are now under the delusion that losing seats equals winning.

I can promise you that I won't be the one to try to snap them out of it either. As a matter of fact can someone send me some info on how I can help Rubio's primary campaign? I think its time for progressives to really get behind him in that race lol.

Two Words For You, "The Abyss"

I haven't posted much on the NY23 race mostly because I was too busy sitting over here laughing my ass off about it. This is the case study on why I predicted earlier this year that the GOP isn't headed into the wilderness, but into the abyss. This pretty much goes back to John McCain picking Sarah Palin as his VP candidate. She came to embody what a substantial part of the Republican Party thinks they should be, at least from all her rhetoric.

Proud to be stupid, inflexible, dogmatic, irrational, underqualified, and hyperbolic.

That is the "base" of the GOP now. And for them its all fine and good to lose elections as long as they ran as "conservative" a race as possible and polarized people. They don't give a shit about polls, or science, or the will of the people. All they care about is their own ideology and everybody else are the crazy ones for not subscribing to it.

Now you have what should have been an innocuous special election for a House seat in northern New York which by all accounts should have been an easy win for any Republican candidate. But you see Sarah Palin's GOP will not take yes for an answer. For them it isn't about whether or not the GOP can build their numbers back up. No, for them its about the strictest litmus test possible for the Republican candidate. When the woman who was nominated by the local GOP, Dede Scozzafava, didn't fit in that box because she held some moderate positions, the "base" of the party, you know the Tea Baggers who swear they don't care about the GOP, decided to put up their own idealogue, Doug Hoffman, who of course has no idea of what the hell the job entails.

Hoffman is quite simply a Sarah Palin clone. Proud to be ignorant of the needs of that district. Oh so proud to be an idealogue. And built up by people who don't really give a shit about NY23 but instead their own political futures. But hey why let that keep him from ruining the Republicans chances of winning a seat that has been in their possession for literally over 100 years.

I will just let the paper of record from that district, the Watertown Daily, which initially endorsed Scozzafava, take it away now.

The Watertown Daily Times initially endorsed Ms. Scozzafava as the best-qualified candidate in the race. We still think she is. However, in suspending her campaign she released her supporters' commitment to her. That left voters to choose between Mr. Owens and Mr. Hoffman.

Of the two, Bill Owens is by far the superior and only choice.

The Democratic candidate has demonstrated a willingness to listen to people about ways in which he could help the district as their representative in Washington. Mr. Owens has remained focused on the economy and job creation throughout his campaign. At the same time, he has shown an understanding of the military, a keen desire to help dairy farmers, an ability to work with labor unions and an eagerness to learn more about the vast, 11-county district that he hopes to represent.

Mr. Owens seems to approach politics and challenges with an open mind, a generous spirit and a can-do attitude. He has conducted a dignified campaign in comparison to Doug Hoffman.

Mr. Hoffman is running as an ideologue. If he carries out his pledges on earmarks, taxation, labor law reform and other inflexible positions, Northern New York will suffer. This rural district depends on the federal government for an investment in Fort Drum and its soldiers, environmental protection of our international waterway and the Adirondack Park, and the livelihood of all our dairy farmers across the district, among other support. Our representative cannot be locked into rigid promises and policies that would jeopardize these critical sectors of our economy.

For a member of Congress, there may be a time to promote reform in Washington, but there is also a time to work within a system that best serves the people you represent.

It is frightening that Mr. Hoffman is so beholden to right-wing ideologues who dismiss Northern New Yorkers as parochial when people here simply want to know how Mr. Hoffman will protect their interests in Washington.

The race has changed, but voters still face an important choice. Northern New York must send to Congress a representative who serves their interests first and foremost.

The Times endorses Bill Owens for Congress.

Now here is the rub. Should Bill Owens win on Tuesday the right wing base of the GOP will actually count this as a victory. Leave aside the fact that Scozzafava would have agreed with the GOP in Congress on probably something like 98% of issues. Better yet she probably would have voted with them 99% of the time. And we all know that ain't happening with Owens.

No for them as long as they don't have a "RINO" in office that is all that matters.

Now we Democrats have our own problems with DINOs. But the difference is we don't mind folks having a different opinion or point of view, as long as they don't obstruct their own party. The base of the GOP now wants nothing less than blind allegiance to what they claim are conservative views. Doesn't matter that their "god" Ronald Reagan had some of the worst economic ideas in our country's history. Doesn't matter that the "culture wars" of years past are now passing their party up with the younger generation. Doesn't matter that the demographics of the country are changing in such a way that their lack of minority outreach will only increase in importance going forward.

They. Don't. Care.

So if my fellow Democrats are smart we will largely just stay out of the way and let them eat their own. This one fire that doesn't need any more gasoline added. Just let the flame wars go and then sweep away the ashes when its time to count votes.

It is what it is.

Take It Away Keith!

Losing The Benefit Of A Doubt

The more "mainstream" Republicans push fringe theories the more the credibility of the GOP is being torn to shreds. Now it was one thing when just average people started to notice how the Republican Party was becoming more and more radicalized everyday and losing moderates and thus any moderation. But now we are seeing that many journalists and by proxy their news organizatios are finally starting to take notice too. And when I say take notice I am not talking about just op-ed writers who almost always take the liberal or Democratic position on any issue. I am talking about the editorial boards of several major regional newspapers finally calling out the GOP for their over the top lies and rhetoric.

This newest ridiculous tempest in a teapot over President Obama speaking to school kids may very well be the straw that broke the camel's back.

There once was a political operative who loved to tell crowds he had a simple way of explaining to children the difference between Republicans and Democrats.

"Republicans get up and go to work," he would tell his son. "Democrats get up and go down to the mailbox to get their checks."

This man not only talked to his son about Republican values, he went into public-school classrooms and talked about them as well.

That man is Jim Greer — the same Jim Greer who, as chairman of the Republican Party of Florida, just threw a nationwide hissy fit, claiming that the classroom is no place for politics and Barack Obama's "indoctrination."

One Seminole County mother, Barbara Wells, remembers the day Greer spoke to her son's sixth-grade class. "My son said he made some sort of Hillary Clinton joke," she recalled.

But you know what? Wells didn't pitch a fit.

She didn't call up the local TV station to scream about Republican indoctrination.

Instead, she advised her son: "Whatever you are told in life, remember there are two sides to every story."

In fact, Wells didn't even think much about Greer's foray into her son's classroom until she saw him on TV complaining about Obama.

There's no longer any question: Greer is a hypocrite.

snip

Late Friday, I caught up with Greer, who said he has no regrets about accusing the president of spreading "liberal lies" before Greer even knew what Obama was going to say.

In fact, Greer actually believes that, had he not called Obama out, the indoctrination would have taken place.

And he didn't see any fair comparison between his own school visits and the president's. The main difference, Greer said, is that he didn't have the Department of Education organizing lesson plans meant to idolize him the way he's convinced they would have for Obama, had Greer not stopped him.

But Jim, Thursday night on Hardball you said: "Before anybody talks to my children from a political perspective, I want to know what they have to say." And yet you didn't run your opinions by any of the parents before you started molding young minds, did you?

"That was different," he said. "I wasn't using lesson plans."

I'm honestly not sure whether Greer really believes what he's shoveling. But I know I'm not alone in thinking his divisive rhetoric is beyond the pale. Conservative talk-show host Joe Scarborough labeled Greer's comments "insane talk."

But Scarborough didn't stop there. He wondered why Florida's leading Republicans weren't taking on Greer, "standing up and saying: 'Guys, calm down. This is no way to conduct a debate.'"

It's a good question.

So I ran Greer's extremist statement by four high-profile Republicans: Gov. Charlie Crist, U.S. Rep. John Mica, State House Speaker-designate Dean Cannon and Orange County GOP leader Lew Oliver.

I chose conservative leaders whose positions I respect. And Crist, too.

I just wanted to see whether a single one had the guts to call Greer out and take a stand for mainstream values and rational debate.

Not a one of them did.

And that is even scarier.

The more reputable news organizations which have no reputation for being liberal or conservative continue to report stories like this, the more the GOP as a whole will be tarred with a crazy by association type label. See it not just that Jim Greer is running around like a chicken with his head cut off right now, its that none of the other Republican "leaders" in Florida are willing to stand up and call him out. There used to be a time when Republicans could get away with that because news was so concentrated. But now, with the advent of the internet, any and everybody in the nation can know about this crazy guy in Florida complaining hypocritically about indoctrination. As long as it continues the majority of Americans are going to keep moving away from the Republican party. Its one thing to associate with a party that has bad policies, its another thing altogether to support a party that has driven itself off a cliff. If they don't get their arms around that fact, there will never be the resurgence that many conservative leaders keep insisting is just around the corner.

Not that I would shed a tear over that.

FoxNews Fringe Party

In theory I really don't have a problem with there being a right leaning or conservative news cable network. If they wanted to present the news with a rightward slant I think they should have every right to do that and it wouldn't probably hurt the Republican Party if that were to happen. But where FoxNews goes wrong is their embrace of the fringe elements of the conservative movement in their psycophantic support of the GOP. They seem to believe that if they validate even the wildest most incoherent arguments on the right, then they will hurt Democrats which in turn will help Republicans. Its most obvious, of course, with their night time programming, but even their supposedly "straight news" shows embrace this philosphy of validating their fringe elements.

Unfortunately for them, their tactics are backfiring not on them but the GOP. Don't get me wrong, FoxNews has a strong following and they absolutely own the ratings for cable news. But their audience is much more homogenous and unwilling to watch other channels to entertain an alternate view of the issues. And in turn they are so convincing that their audience believes them which has increaasingly taken them out of the mainstream.

Just look at this nugget from the new Research 2000 poll.

While nearly a third of Republicans say they do believe in the death panels, only eight percent of independents believe in them.

And while only a minority of Republicans, 43%, is willinging to say they don’t believe in the death panels, an overwhelming majority of independents, 76%, reject the idea. That’s a spread of 33%.

Dems, of course, are even further away from Republicans on this. But the key finding here is that huge gap between GOP and indy opinion on what constitutes, well, factual reality. It’s yet another data point supporting the notion that the deepening isolation of Republicans is a major political story right now.

This kind of polarization on different issues comes from somewhere and I can guarantee you that FoxNews is a prime suspect. Its not enough for them that they oppose an issue on philosphical grounds. No, they have to find a way to scare people into being on their side and rejecting the Democrats. The only problem of course is that both the Democrats and the Independents now dwarf Republicans in party ID. And more and more people are fleeing from the GOP. So you can expect that as FoxNews continues to help lead Republicans off a cliff, that more and more people will jump off the crazy train and come back to rational society.

But hey, at least FoxNews will keep their high ratings, right?

The Abyss

December of last year I made the statement on this blog that the GOP wasn't headed toward the wildnerness but instead they were flying head on into the abyss. At the time it was in response to the "Barack the Magic Negro" foolishness that Chip Saltsman had embraced and in turn many in the GOP were loathe to denounce. It was clear to me then that they were still clueless about what it would take to change their electoral fortunes anywhere other than in the deep south. Not only are they doing a horrible job with their minority outreach, they also seem to be oblivious to the fact that when they engage in this kind of crazy and or race baiting hyperbole and nobody in the party is willing to step up and denounce it then they also offend many regular middle class white votes as well.

Some of this is directly a result of the make up of their shrinking base. With their numbers dwindling the people left in the Republican Party tend to be more radical and over the top than normal. And when your base ends up being primarily made up of the people we would usually describe as the fringe then you in effect become a fringe party. And if you don't have any political courage then instead of trying to bring more moderates into the fold you actually pander to that radicalized base which only serves to further marginalize your party. And that is what the leaders of the Republican Party are doing right now.

The latest evidence of this is the whole "birther" madness that is taking over the GOP. People keep acting surprised that Republican members of Congress are either fully endorsing the birther position or at the least saying refusing to denounce the loons who keep trying to claim President Obama isn't a natural born citizen. Just check out this polling fresh off the presses on the birther issue.

A forthcoming DailyKos/Research 2000 poll found 77% of Americans believe President Obama was born in the United States, 11% do not, and 12% are not sure.

Among Republicans only, 42% think he's an American citizen, 28% do not, and 30% are not sure.

For those in the cheap seats 58% of Republicans either do not believe that President Obama is an American citizen or say they aren't sure. When you go by region of the country, the numbers in the south are almost identical.

Again, Republican officials have the power to change this. They can stand up to the fringe that has overrun their party and denounce them and this would go a long way towards bringing people back to the GOP. But they won't do it. They don't have the courage to do it. They have convinced themselves that they simply weren't crazy enough during the Bush years and thats why they got kicked out. So now they are willing to double down on the stupid just to appease their batshit crazy base.

Now how can they win nationally with that? And how can they ever hope to retake the House or the Senate let alone the White House with just the southern states?

Its simple, they won't. I mean as dissappointing as Democrats are at times at least for the most part they aren't nucking futs. And after 8 years of misadventure and lawlessness during Bush's reign, people aren't going to be willing to hand over the keys again to these folks any time soon. Especially when they have shown not even a hint of even trying to change their direction.

So once again GOP, enjoy your time in the abyss, you are going to be there for a LONGGGGGGGG time!

(h/t Greg Sargent)

* Post updated with picture courtesy of Instaputz

Schism

This morning two prominent Republicans went on Sunday shows and dismissed the small tent philosphy embraced by both Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney. Colin Powell and Tom Ridge, both military veterans, calmly and thoughtfully put forth their case for their visions of the Republican Party going forward. Now seeing as how neither man is in office or running for office they could speak their mind without having to carry water for the wingnut base. Now they didn't present the exact same case, but one thing was for certain with both of them. Neither man believed the Republican Party can make a comeback if they listen to people like Rush Limbaugh. Now here is the thing, Rush Limbaugh is one of the most polarizing people in America let alone inside the Republican Party. But right now the GOP is not just trying to shore up its base, its also trying to reach out to independents and people in the middle. That is a fight that normally they would be fighting against the Democrats but it turns out that it seem clear now that they will also be fighting for them within the party.

I believe that today is a watershed moment. There are now two totally conflicting views of the party and sooner or later people are going to have to chose. The reason for this is that the Rush Limbaugh wing of the party wants to expel the Colin Powell/Tom Ridge wing. But they aren't going anywhere and while they would never say publicly that Rushbo needs to haul his fat ass, I am sure privately they think HE is the one that needs to go. So who will the majority of Republicans back? Who will those independents who lean Republican line up behind? The truth is it doesn't matter what the numbers end up being. What matter is I think what we are seeing now are two irreconcilable wings of one party. So unless there is some kind of miraculous kum by yah moment it would seem that it is now the destiny of the Republican Party to fracture off into at least two separate entities. I don't know how soon the public split will happen but it would seem that the private split is already in play. I do believe that we need at least two viable political parties in this country as a form of checks and balances, but until the Republicans or Republican lites get their shit together, they won't have the capacity to fulfill that role. If I could hazard a guess I am betting when the moderate wing of the Republican Party emerges as something else, Colin Powell may just be their standard bearer.



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